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James, I gotta say those video pique my interest. But it certainly seems like a lot of laborers in that video. I'm not really sure there is a labor savings with this kind of wall vs. a standard rock wall. Certainly looks nice though. 
 
 
 
StoneMakers claims you can build walls in 1 day that used to take 5 days. Yah, maybe if you have 10-15 workers on the site, like in that video. But with my normal crew of 2 or 3 guys, I don't think that a wall they would usually do in 5 days (which would be like a 100-150' x 4' tall dry stack rock wall) could be done in a day with the same number of guys. 
 
 
 
My other concern is stability, long term. We get a lot of rain and there is always a lot of hydrostatic pressure behind walls here. Most concrete walls I've ever seen have large cracks in them. I replace concrete walls every year with SRWs or real rock walls. They just don't seem to last long-term like SRWs do. 
 
 
 
I'd hate to get all excited about this concept, go out and start installing them by the dozens every year and then find in 3 or 4 years they were all starting to fail. Doing the warranty work on that many walls would put me out of business! I just don't have a lot of faith in concrete walls for this area. 
 
 
 
I remain intrigued but not convinced. I don't think I can afford to take the risk that this doesn't work as well as it says.

Hi Jim, 
I had a lot of the same concerns that you did as well. The videos do show a lot of people there as it was a training session for new dealers. To be completely honest I am not sure exactly how much work my crew will be able to do in a day. I have a crew of 3 guys plus myself. Also in the training, whenever we learned a new aspect or the next step if you will, everybody wanted to try at once then 15 minutes later 2-5 guys were working. In this video we did a 75' long 4' tall wall in 5.5 hours then colored in 1 hour the next day. 
As far as strength, I was concerned too. I've done my fair share of SRW walls and pavers and never really had any big issues. Went through 5 cases of bad glue a few years ago - that sucked. But we fixed it and moved along. The real strength of this product lies in the ingredient that allows you to use concrete at a low slump of 2.5 to 3. PSI ratings should easily top 6000 on a 9 sack mix. When I build my walls I will core test the mix. And I will be making a few test cylinders to test in the shop this winter and doing a video on it. My idea is to take 3500 psi concrete and make 3 cylinders and then make the same mix with the stonemakers product added and take 3 cylinders. From there I will test both after 24 hours, then 30 days then 90 days to see what happens. I know it's not real scientific but it may be helpful. 
 
Where I am I replace every type of wall and make a good living at it to boot, Speak of the devil I'm replacing both a concrete wall and srw wall today - my guys are there now. We are going to use SRW's in this case because. 1 - the StoneMakers product cannot be allowed to freeze and it's 20 or so out right now, 2 - they are trying to match a wall they had built last year on the other side of the driveway. 
 
After seeing this product in person I can say that SRW's cannot be as strong. First the strength in a SRW wall comes from a combination of weight, static friction, mechanical bond(pins, lip etc) and soil reinforcement (grid, soil type etc. On this wall you may still and should in some cases use geo-grid. The mechanical bond is replaced by a monolithic pour and the weight, well lets see. Using some round numbers the wall we made was 75' long x 4' tall and used 20 yards of concrete. That would be roughly 20 yards x 3915 pounds per yard I won't count the gravel it's the same for both - that's 78,300 lbs. 
Now block 75' long and 4' exposed 6" buried a total of 337.5 face feet of wall. I use CST Versalok standard which is .66 face feet per block which would be roughly 506 blocks and with each block weighing 88 pounds we would be at 44,528 pounds of wall material. That's almost twice the weight. 
I can say from being there and doing the work and seeing the end result it passes the common sense test. It's abundantly obvious that the StoneMakers wall is stronger. Heck we had a piece of concrete that was not cleaned up as it should have been before it had cured. The concrete was one day old and we were taking turns trying to break a 4" thick slab with a 12 lb sledge and a bosch brute jackhammer. after 2 hours they brought in a tow-able compressor and 90lb jack hammers for 15 square feet of concrete. 
 
Drainage has to be addressed just as you would do in any type of wall. Water will break any wall if allowed to sit. I think the reason yourself and I replace so many walls is because of the original installer. And if the wall failed because of hydrostatic pressure then it was 100% the installers fault or engineers for that matter. Also typical concrete walls are not monolithic and they are poured with a weak (wet, 6-7 slump) concrete to get into and fill all of the voids in the forms. This creates two problems, 1- a cold joint between the footing and wall (it's not monolithic as a StoneMakers wall) usually only supported by some rebar going vertical. 2- Thirty-five hundred psi concrete diluted down to 2-3000 psi concrete. 
 
Jamie

Jaime & Jim, 
 
I was at the training with Jaime and the other trainees. I would agree with everything Jaime said concerning Stonemakers products. This past summer, I visited older projects that were installed as much as 9 years ago using the Stonemakers system. This is the real deal. 
 
Our company experience over our 57 years in business has proven that any system will fail if improperly designed or executed. We have replaced SRW's, stone walls, and concrete walls. All had numerous problems mostly due to ignorance. These installers didn't do a poor quality job to cheat someone, they just didn't know better.  
 
Education is the key to success in any endeavor. Dave Montoya and the team truly have learned and are now educating others in a better and more profitable system.

absolutely amazing!! Here in NY they no longer allow a monolithic pour anymore for my footing on additions which was the strongest pour possible for a foundation. These walls with the rebar and monolithic pour must be indestructable and sure will outlast retaining block. just make sure those footings are below frost line and you will maintain the lawngevity of that wall!!

Hey Jamie, I've been reading your blogs about StoneMakers and I've gotta say....you sound like a "believer". It's funny, I've personally been involved with bringing on over 100 new dealers to the StoneMakers family in 2010. Most guys are skeptics until they get their hands dirty during the field training and then I get phone calls from them saying "holy cow, I can't believe what we're doing down here" or "I'm so glad you got me into this"...etc. Jamie, keep up the great work. Companies that can combine great marketing efforts with a unique product can bring their business to a whole new level...Happy New Year

Jamie, 
 
 
 
The stonemakers system looks incredible and a little to good to be true. How long does it take the magic mud to stand on its own, and how long until it is not carve-able? I watched your video using the stonemakers product on a large waterfall, nice work. Have you adapted the stonemakers product to your pool business yet? It would seem with a little planning a monolithic pool could be attained? Any comments would be helpful to this perspective Stonemakers dealer. 
 
 
 
Thank you,  
 
 
 
Keith Zinkovich 
 

Hi Keith, 
Thanks for checking out my blog. I had a lot of the same questions myself. The first thing I noticed when working with the StoneMakers product is that I had to just give in and believe in it. It goes against everything I ever knew about concrete. I was afraid that once you started stacking the mud you had to rush. The fact is that you have a fair amount of time to work with the product. On the walls that you saw from my video, the concrete came in a little too wet. I would say it was about a 4-5" slump. To compensate we used a little less of the StoneMakers wall builder product. The weather was about 60-70 degrees F from morning to mid-day, calm to zero wind and filtered sunlight through trees. Once we started placing the concrete in the footing we noticed that it was just too wet, but we kept at it anyway. After about two hours we decided to just wait and take lunch. After about an hour lunch the difference was amazing. The mud was stacking right up and ready to be carved. So now 3 hours into the pour we had a 75' long x 4' tall wall with no carving done yet. We started carving the wall and adding texture. And concrete that was getting a little stiff we scraped off and added a product called StoneMakers Wall Finish. This gave us back the plasticity of the concrete and we were able to take our time working with it. The wall finish product also has some polymers built in that acts as a secondary sealer. Parts of the wall that were not stiff and did not need to be scraped off still got the wall finish product but we were able to just spray it on and trowel it in. The beauty of the StoneMakers product is that it cures from the inside out unlike standard concrete which does the opposite. Nearing the very end of the wall it did get a little too stiff co carve so we used a diamond blade grinder for literally 1 to 2 feet of the wall to carve it. And I think that was more to show us we can if we need to. Total time was 5.5 Hours including the lunch break for 10 yards of concrete. For my crew I will start pouring 6 yards until we are more comfortable with the speed and so on. Example: 6 yards show up 7:30 am and another 6 Yards when the first load is just about off the truck and so on.  
As far as adapting it to my pool business I have given that some thought and will defiantly use it for pools. But only for instances where my fiberglass line is not suitable. Example: They need a bigger pool than can fit on a truck. 
If you are considering the product give Dick at StoneMakers a call. He is my go to guy over there and is very helpful before and after the deal. His email is dconley@stonemakers.net call my cell for his number. 
Jamie

I am glad you are doing well with you concept. But guys just order out a shotcrete mix minus the pea gravel at a 3 slump and add fibermesh to it and your good.

Hi Jeff, 
Can you expound on that? 
Jamie

Hello, it looks really awesome, this product and work. Is it possible to be trained to install and to purchase product without being a dealer. 
 
 
 
Thanks, 
 
 
 
George

Wow what a great technique, where can I find more information about this. 
 
Greg Rochester NY Landscaper